STUNNING DOCUMENT FROM THE “WENDI G.” CASE

[NOTE: The document that follows is from the “Wendi G.” case that I have blogged about extensively at lundybancroft.blogspot.com, “Healing and Hope”. Wendi has been subjected to extensive accusations that she has lied about the risks to her children, and that she caused them to make the statements they made. The judge on the case, Jon Hulsing of Ottawa County, Michigan, recently jailed Wendi for 90 days (of which she served 60¬).

Judge Hulsing refused to permit the report that I’ve reproduced below to come into evidence.

Read it and come to your own conclusions. Would it be possible for a mother to prepare her children, aged 10 and 11, to conduct these extensive interviews falsely? (I am an experienced actor and nonetheless I would find it difficult to memorize this much material!)

I have reproduced the typos from the original document, which are marked “[sic]“. I have changed the names of the children, the parents, and the parents’ new partners, and I have made a note between brackets where I have done so. All other names are left as they were in the report.

If you are concerned by what you read here, please call the Michigan governor’s office at:

(517) 373-3400

and request an investigation into Judge Jon Hulsing. (Wendi’s case is only one of several that have been reported to me involving misconduct by Judge Hulsing.)

— Lundy Bancroft

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Children’s Advocacy Center of Ottawa County
Forensic Interview Report

Child’s Name: Caleigh B. and Monte B. [children’s names altered by me here and throughout the report]
DOB: [redacted by me]
Interview Date: 6/27/11
Interviewer: Bresh Groen
Report Date: 6/28/11
Team Members Involved: Detective Derek Christensen, Ottawa County Sheriff’s Department, Jennifer Hnilca, Ottawa County Child Protective Services, and Rachael DeWitt, Children’s Advocacy Center

Reason for Referral:

Caleigh, a ten-year-old Caucasian female, and Monte an eleven-year-old Caucasian male, were referred for Forensic Interviews by Jennifer Hnilca of Ottawa County Child Protective Services. Detective Christensen was also assigned to the case.

It was reported that Caleigh, 10, disclosed that while on visitation with her father, Joel Baker [name altered by me], during the school year he made her rub lotion on his naked body, climbed into bed with her while he was naked, and touched her private area., It was further reported there is some concern for Monte, 11, as he was also on visitation in his father’s home during that time.

Family Constellation:

Caleigh and Monte are biological siblings. Their biological parents are Joel Baker and Wendi Baker [name altered by me] who are divorced. Caleigh and Monte spend the school year at their father’s residence and spend summer break and other breaks at their mother’s residence. Their mother resides with her husband, Dennis Graves [name altered by me].

Interview Summary:

Detective Christensen, Jennifer Hnilica, and Victim Advocate Rachael DeWitt observed the interviews. The interviews were conducted using the Forensic Interviewing Protocol developed by the State of Michigan’s Governor’s Task Force on Children’s Justice and the Department of Human Services.

I first interviewed Caleigh. She willingly accompanied me to the interview room. I oriented her to the room and videotaping equipment and explained my job to her. I informed Caleigh it is okay to say, “I don’t know” to a question if she does not know the answer and to correct me if I say something wrong. Legal competency was established with Caleigh and she agreed to tell the truth during our time together. Time was spent building rapport.

During rapport building Caleigh stated she likes to be in Michigan and spend time with her mom. When asked what her favorite thing is to do with her mom, Caleigh stated talk about everything going on like the divorce and what is happening. Caleigh added she talks with her dad about the divorce but she mostly talks with her mom about important stuff.

When asked how come she is here today, Caleigh stated her dad sexually abused her. When asked to tell me about that, Caleigh explained it all started one year ago when he made her put lotion on his back and she didn’t feel comfortable with it. Caleigh added a “child support lady” came out and asked Caleigh some questions about if she is comfortable putting lotion on her dad and she told the lady she wasn’t. Caleigh stated the lady told her dad not to make Caleigh do that anymore but he did it again and he made her put lotion on his bottom and said it was because his wrist was hurting from playing basketball. Caleigh stated she felt like she had no choice. Caleigh added more stuff happened this year. Caleigh clarified when it started last year she was in third grade and “stuff” continued through fourth grade. Caleigh also clarified she has already talked to someone about putting lotion on her dad’s back.

When asked to tell me about putting lotion on his bottom, Caleigh stated one day he asked her if he [sic – apparently meant to write “she”] could put lotion on his bottom because he couldn’t reach that part. Caleigh stated she told him she was uncomfortable but felt like she had no choice. Caleigh stated her dad’s clothes were off and they were in the bathroom in his bedroom. Caleigh stated he was standing and she was standing with her clothes on for school. Caleigh clarified bottom is the butt area. Caleigh pointed to her butt to clarify. When asked what part of his bottom she put lotion on, Caleigh stated the outside. Caleigh stated she put lotion on his butt with her hands. Caleigh stated she has only put lotion on his bottom one time but has put lotion on his back many times. Caleigh stated he kept asking her to do it and she didn’t want anything else to happen so she just did it. Caleigh added after she put lotion on his bottom he said thinks [sic], she left [sic], and asked him if she could never do that again but he told her she might have to if it hurts him again.

When asked if there are any other times he doesn’t have clothes on, Caleigh stated when she was in 4th grade he laid with her in bed without his clothes on. Caleigh explained it was in the morning and they were getting ready for school and she said that she missed her mom. Caleigh stated he came into her bedroom and said, ‘Sweetie, why don’t you get ready for school?’ Caleigh stated she told him she missed her mom. Caleigh stated he climbed up her ladder to the top bunk and she didn’t notice he had no clothes on until he hugged her. Caleigh stated she felt his private touching her but she still had her jammies on. Caleigh clarified she was at first lying on her back when he was on the ladder. Caleigh stated she saw him at the top of the ladder and she saw his chest and his private part. Caleigh stated then he got in bed and was lying on his side and his ‘thing’ was touching on the side of her stomach and when she turned away from him his ‘thing’ rubbed against her body and touched her butt. Caleigh clarified that this was on top of her pajamas. When asked how she knows she felt his private, Caleigh stated it was pushing against her and she knew it was his private because she saw him naked. Caleigh added his arms were around her arms. Caleigh stated he told her to get ready for school. Caleigh denied he hugged her like that before. Caleigh stated she felt really weird because she never hugged anyone naked in bed before. When asked what his private looked like, Caleigh stated “dangling” and “hairy”. Caleigh stated after she turned away from him she scooched away and he get [sic] down. Caleigh stated then she got ready for school. Caleigh clarified she had seen her dad’s private before when he would be naked and ask her to put lotion on him. Caleigh clarified he climbed in bed with her in March of her 4th grade year. Caleigh stated Monte was already at school. Caleigh added it was a little awkward to be around her dad after it happened but then she just got used to being around him again.

When asked if anything else happened, Caleigh stated the next thing was when she was having a hard time after talking to her mom because she was missing her mom. Caleigh stated she kept on crying and one night she was in her room crying and her dad came in naked after he took a shower. Caleigh stated he sat down next to her and asked what was wrong. Caleigh stated she told him she didn’t want to talk it and then he left the room. Caleigh clarified he sat on the floor of her bedroom next to her. Caleigh denied anything else happened. Caleigh stated he had no clothes on and no towel on. Caleigh added Monte was downstairs.

When asked if there is anything else that has made her feel uncomfortable, Caleigh stated his fiancé Melissa [name altered by me] came over and they were both drinking. Caleigh stated he drank too much beer because he drank three beers and he was drunk. Caleigh stated she went to the bathroom and had blood in her stool and asked if her dad could come into the bathroom. Caleigh stated she had her pants up but she asked her dad to look at her poop because there was blood. Caleigh stated her dad then asked if he could check her bottom and she told him she did not feel comfortable with that. Caleigh stated she told him she only felt comfortable with a doctor checking her bottom. Caleigh added he told her he needed to check it for her safety and if she didn’t let him check it he would spank her. Caleigh clarified when he came into the bathroom he was all “woosy”. Caleigh stated she doesn’t really trust her dad and he doesn’t make her feel safe so she was uncomfortable with him checking her. Caleigh added he was also drunk. When asked how he checked her, Caleigh stated he checked the inside of her bottom and was poking around there so she told him to stop and then he told her she looked okay. Caleigh clarified she was standing up and he was on his knees. Caleigh added he was checking with his fingers and his palms. Caleigh stated her pants were off but her shirt was on. Caleigh explained he was pushing her butt cheeks, spreading them out, poking around and feeling stuff. Caleigh explained he checked inside of her butt by touching the butthole and feeling around the hole. Caleigh stated then he checked “under”. At this time Caleigh grabbed her vaginal area to clarify how he went “under” with his hand from behind her. Caleigh stated he poked the inside and around of that area too. Caleigh stated it didn’t feel good and she didn’t like him doing that. Caleigh stated she told him to stop and he did. Caleigh denied he has ever checked her bottom before. Caleigh denied he ever checked her bottom again. Caleigh clarified this happened during her 4th grade year before summer started. When asked if she talked to anyone about it, Caleigh stated she felt scared and didn’t want to tell anyone. Caleigh added she was scared something really bad would happen if she told someone. When asked if anyone else has checked her bottom before, Caleigh stated a doctor has with gloves on. Caleigh explained when the doctor checked her bottom he didn’t poke it he just felt to make sure nothing was wrong.

At this time I reviewed body safety with Caleigh. When asked where it is okay for someone to touch, Caleigh stated the legs, arms, and face. When asked where it is not okay for someone to touch, Caleigh stared the private part, bottom, and breasts. When asked if someone has touched her where it is not okay besides her dad checking her bottom, Caleigh stated no. When asked if someone has wanted her to touch them on their body where it is not okay, Caleigh stated not besides when her dad wanted her to put lotion on his butt. Caleigh denied ever seeing any movies or pictures of people without their clothes on.

When asked if her mom knows about what happened with her dad, Caleigh stated she told her after Caleigh talked to the police officer. When asked how she talked to a police officer, Caleigh stated her mom took her to the hospital because her mom wanted to make sure Caleigh and were {sic} brother were healthy because they lost weight and her dad doesn’t feed them well. When asked what made Caleigh decide to tell at the hospital, Caleigh stated they went to a different police officer because she told her mom about the lotion and then Caleigh talked to a nurse and a police officer. Caleigh state she thought they were safe to tell. Caleigh clarified she talked to a different police officer when she was in 2nd grade but she didn’t tell then because it hadn’t happened yet. Caleigh stated she told the police officer everything she told me except about putting lotion on the butt because she didn’t remember that part. Caleigh stated she told the nurse everything she told me except the part about putting lotion on the butt. Caleigh stated the only other person she has told is her mom. Caleigh stated her mom thinks what her dad made Caleigh do was wrong.

When asked what kinds of things about the divorce she talks with her mom about, Caleigh stated when she doesn’t feel safe, how she doesn’t like being with her dad, how she wishes she could always be in Michigan. When asked what makes her feel unsafe, Caleigh stated she doesn’t trust him. Caleigh added her step dad is a more loving and caring dad than her real dad. Caleigh stated Darren {name altered by me] cares about her and knows how to love her and her dad never loves her and has never apologized to her if he hurt her feelings. When asked if Caleigh has any other issues with her dad besides the touching, Caleigh stated sometimes she yells at him [sic — apparently meant to write “he yells at her”]. Caleigh stated she wants to be with her mom in Michigan. when asked what she thinks should happen now, Caleigh stated she thinks her dad should go to jail since he sexually abused her. When asked if anyone talked to her about coming today, Caleigh stated her mom told her to be strong, trust in her heart, and say the truth. Caleigh denied anyone told her what to say today. Caleigh explained she can’t always live with her mom because the judge said she couldn’t. Caleigh stated she thinks her dad somehow got to the judge or something. When asked how she knows the word sexual abuse, Caleigh stated her mom told her that it is wrong and parents shouldn’t do that to a kid. Caleigh stated her mom told her that after Caleigh told her mom about what happened with her dad.

At this time I thanked Caleigh for meeting with me and the interview was concluded.

I then interviewed Monte. He willingly accompanied me to the interview room. I oriented him to the room and videotaping equipment and explained my job to him. I informed him it was okay to say, “I don’t know” to a question if he does not know the answer and to correct me if I say something wrong. Legal competency was established with Monte and he agreed to tell the truth during our time together. Time was spent building rapport.

When asked how come he is here today, Monte stated he needs to process some stuff and let the truth go out. Monte explained he needs to process everything that has happened the last two years with his parents divorce and how things are going. Monte stated things are going good at his mom’s house. When asked if there is anything about being at his mom’s house that makes him uncomfortable, Monte stated her roommate Denise eats disgusting food that smells. Monte added sometimes it is uncomfortable for him when his mom and Caleigh are crying together. When asked to tell me about that, Monte stated they were crying while they were in the hospital because of Caleigh’s foot and then Caleigh processed some stuff with the counselor and they were crying when their mom found out some of the things that dad did. When asked to tell me what his dad did, Monte stated he was naked one time and Caleigh had to rub lotion on his back and rub lotion on his bottom. Monte added his dad was also hugging Caleigh in bed trying to comfort her but Monte is not sure if his dad was naked or only had a towel on. Monte stated he doesn’t know what to think about these things Caleigh said happened. Monte stated he is pretty sure he saw some things happen. When asked to tell me about that, Monte stated he was playing videogames and their dad asked them if one of them would rub lotion on his back. Monte stated Caleigh told him okay and Monte said no because he thought it was gross. Monte stated he did see Caleigh rubbing lotion on their dad’s back and Monte noticed Caleigh was rubbing lotion close to his dad’s bottom. Monte stated he is pretty sure it’s true that Caleigh rubbed lotion on his dad’s back and bottom. Monte stated he also knows their dad was hugging her. Monte stated he saw his dad hugging Caleigh while they were standing up and his dad was naked. Monte stated he is also pretty sure that he climbed up on the bed one time to see his dad hugging Caleigh in the bed naked. Monte stated his dad was cuddling Caleigh and they were both facing the same way and he had her in his arms because she was having a school struggle or something.

When asked to tell me more about their dad being naked at home, Monte stated he comes out of the bathroom in a towel but sometimes he is naked and will come into their bathroom. When asked what he things about his dad being naked, Monte stated he finds it unusual that his dad would come out so much naked because when his dad and more [sic] were still married he would never come out of his bathroom naked when he was getting ready. Monte stated sometimes he sees his dad naked with shaving cream still on his face or sometimes Monte is making breakfast and his dad will walk naked to a different room. When asked where his dad is going, Monte stated mostly Caleigh’s room. Monte denied his dad hugs anyone else naked or lays in bed with anyone else naked. When asked if there is anything that is uncomfortable for him when he is at his dad’s house, Monte stated he doesn’t get along well with his dad’s girlfriend’s daughter.

Monte explained that Caleigh only talked about putting lotion on their dad after they got to Michigan. Monte stated Caleigh feels like if she talked about it in Colorado she would get in trouble. Monte explained his mom has talked with him about what happens at their dad’s house a couple of times. Monte added Caleigh has a lot of processing about it but Monte doesn’t have much to say. When asked what processing means, Monte stated Caleigh has a lot of feelings stored up and their mom is the one who can talk to Caleigh about her feelings. Monte stated they do have a counselor in Colorado and Caleigh feels more relaxed after going to the counselor. When asked if he feels like his body is safe at his dad’s house, Monte stated sometimes he doesn’t because of all the things Caleigh has said. Monte added he also has a limited amount of friends at his dad’s house and hears more people swear there.

At this time I reviewed appropriate and inappropriate touching with Monte. He indicated that touching on the penis and butt are inappropriate touches. Monte denied anyone has touched him on his body in an inappropriate way. Monte denied anyone has wanted him to them inappropriately. Monte stated he would tell the counselor or his parents if something like that happened. When asked if he has ever seen any movies or pictures of people without their clothes on, Monte stated no.

When asked where he wants to be, Monte said Michigan because he has closer friends there, he feels safer, and he is more at peace. Monte stated he loves both of his parents but he would rather be in Michigan. When asked if there is anything that makes him feel unsafe at his dad’ [sic] house, Monte stated not really but when his fiancé and him get married she is going to be really bossy and caring for her own personal needs.

At this time I thanked Monte for meeting with me and the interview as [sic] concluded.

Breah Groen, LBSW 6/28/11
Forensic Interviewer Date